Minutes October 2012 (Rhuddlan)

Minutes of QUARTERLY MEETING held at Connah’s Quay on FRIDAY 19th October 2012




Council/person Attending Apologies
Officers Joan Butterfield (Chair)Mariette Roberts (Vice Chair)Alan Gunn (President)Robert Robinson (Secretary & Treasurer)
ABERGELE TOWN COUNCIL Richard G WatersBrian B Roberts Mandy Evans (Clerk)John A MacLennan
BANGOR CITY COUNCIL Eve ButlerDerek Hainge  
BAY OF COLWYN TOWN COUNCIL  Mrs Hazel MeredithMrs Lindsay Griffiths Glyn JonesTina Earley Town Clerk
BUCKLEY TOWN COUNCIL  John WoolleyA WilliamsA Woolley
CAERWYS TOWN COUNCIL  Mrs E SnowdenJonothan Webb
CONNAH’S QUAY TOWN COUNCIL Andy DunbobbinIan Jones (Town Clerk)  Carol GraingerRon HillPam Attridge
CONWY TOWN COUNCIL Helen Armitage (Town Clerk)David Williams Ann EvansHelen Roberts
DENBIGH TOWN COUNCIL Raymond BartleyMargaret Bowe  
FLINT TOWN COUNCIL Terry RenshawDavid CoxLorna Jones
HOLYWELL TOWN COUNCIL Karin DaviesEd Watkinson Colin Pierce (clerk)Mary Auty
LLANFAIR CAEREINION TOWN COUNCIL Ken Astley Ivernia Watkin (Town Clerk)
PRESTATYN TOWN COUNCIL  Nigel Acott Town Clerk J Seabo
RHUDDLAN TOWN COUNCIL J T JonesG H WilliamsT Pemberton (Clerk)
RHYL TOWN COUNCIL Jeannette Chamberlain JonesG Nichols (Clerk)  P Willaims
RUTHIN TOWN COUNCIL Ken HawkinsEmrys Wyn D William (Clerk)
ST ASAPH CITY COUNCIL Elsie PowellBarbara Rust  
WELSHPOOL TOWN COUNCIL Estelle Bleivas Stephen KayeAnn Holloway


1518    Welcome by the Mayor of Rhuddlan Town Council

The meeting was welcomed by the Mayor of Rhuddlan Town Council Cllr G Williams.


1519   Presentation

The meeting received a presentation from Traveline Cymru from Graham Walter.

Information leaflets were available to the meeting.


1520     Notice of the Meeting

Resolved that the Notice of Meeting be received.


1521   Apologies for absence and attendance list

The list was circulated and recorded as above.


1522    Minutes of the last meeting

The minutes were accepted as a correct record with initialled attendance alterations.

1523     Report on actions taken by the Secretary since the last meeting:

The secretary reported on the actions requested to be carried out by this meeting and confirmed that all actions had been completed.


1524    Welsh Language Policy:

The meeting discussion the Welsh Language Policy and agreed that the following actions are to be taken:


        a)    The Secretary to arrange short term for a retired member of staff to help with any translations needed.

        b)    The Secretary to seek out how much it would cost for a translator and if there are any grants available for same.


1525    Financial Report:

The Secretary gave a short report on the accounts and presented a spreadsheet showing the current balances (copy with agenda on file).

The accounts for the year to 31.3.2012 are ready with back up papers and bank statements for handing over in the next week to the auditors.


1526    Executive Meeting – September 2012:

The meeting noted the minutes of the Executive Meeting held in September 2012.


1527    Consultation on Council Tax Changes:

The meeting considered the consultation draft response and this was rejected in favour of the response below:



    The Association has considered the proposals to increase the Council Tax burden upon owners of those properties which are

    vacant for long periods of time.

    The responses to each question in the consultation are listed below.

     Reason for order of response:

    The Association does NOT agree with the principles of the proposals and sets out below its reasons why. The questions listed

    do not fit in with the response which the Association wishes to put forward.

    General Outline:

    The Association agrees with the aim of trying to get all residential properties ready and available for occupation,

     however it was not felt that these proposals would achieve this aim without penalising those with good reason to have a

     property empty for more than 6 months.


    The Association has concerns which are in ‘bullet points’ set out below:

         a)    The cost of the enforcement of the proposals is not viable and a cost which can not be identified and controlled.

        b)    The proposals are unfair in their approach.

        c)    The whole set of proposals are fraught with problems the more you discuss it.

        d)    It it time government looked at positive approaches to a problem rather  than the penal route each time.

        e)    There is existing legislation in place for the more extreme cases now.

        f)    The exceptions list is not fair and equitable.


    The Association feels that there needs to be much more discussion and thought given to how the objective can be achieved, the proposals set out do not, in the view of the Association, achieve this.

    The Association does support an improvement in the legislation to aid getting derelict properties back into residential use. It is worth noting that a lot of these are actually government and local authority owned.


    The Association thanks the Welsh Government for the opportunity to present this response to the consultation and confirms that it is willing to give oral evidence at a Committee if it is felt worthwhile.

    The Association will do its best to attend one of the Workshop events on the topic.


1528    Consultation on Community and Activities Facilities:

The meeting approved the draft consultation paper and response as presented.

A copy is on file and on the Web Site.


1529:    Consultation on the Power of Wellbeing:

The meeting approved the draft consultation paper and response as presented with the exception of the following:

    Ref no 7.       The Association particularly agrees with ‘Section 3(2) of the Act which places a general prohibition on local authorities using the well-being power as a means of raising money.’

A copy is on file and on the Web Site.


1530    Health Care in North Wales:

The meeting received a presentation on the current situation from Cllr T Renshaw.

After some discussion it was agreed that the following response should be sent with regard to the Betsi Cadwaladr Trust Consultation on Health Care.


1.    The consultation process has not involved all of the communities affected by the proposed changes.

2.    The proposals do not reflect what was presented to the Association Meeting by the Betsi Cadwaladr Trust.

3.    The responses from that meeting promised by the Trust have not been received.

4.    Concern about loss of services before their replacement is in place.

5.    Concern about reduction in services, particularly in primary care and small injury units.

6.    Concern that the promise may not be kept to consult directly affected Town and Community Councils before any changes are implemented.

7.    The Association strongly opposes any reduction in bed spaces whatsoever.

8.    The Association strongly objects to the closure of Flint Hospital

9.     Ambulance times need to be improved before any change are made to revised travel to new facilities.

10.   There needs to be an improvement in staffing levels which should be planned well ahead.

11.   A copy of these minutes and of those issued when the Trust visited are to be made available with the consultation response.


1531    Report on the Re-numeration Panel Consultation:

The meeting received a report on the above and the meeting between the Panel and the Association.

The report presented to the meeting was approved subject to an alteration to the £100 for expenses to state ‘for expenses only’.


1532    Constitutional Matters:

The meeting considered 3 constitutional matters as follows:


    a)    Constitution

            The constitution appears to be missing.  The secretary asked if everyone could look out for a copy. 

            The meeting RESOLVED that the secretary should proceed to prepare a new constitution for approval taking into account the older one if found.


    b)    Voting proposals

            The meeting agreed the paper on the Voting proposals. The secretary will now arrange for the voting slips to be issued in accordance with the document.


    c)    Name of the Association

            The meeting agreed the paper on the Name of the Association, this will be the subject of a vote and approval at the AGM in July 2013.


    d)    Standing Orders

            A copy of draft standing orders have been published on the web site under documents for information.  These will be put forward for approval at the AGM in July 2013.


1533   TAN8 Report on Wind Farms, Pylons, Hub and transport:

            The request by the Montgomeryshire Local Council Forum for support from the Association was given.  The policy being supported is noted below:



                Councils attending regularly are Welshpool, Llanfair Caereinion, Llandisilio, Llandrino, Llanfyllin, Llanfechain, Newtown, Kerry and Sarn.

                The Policy recommended for adoption by the Montgomeryshire Local Council Forum is set out below as agreed at a meeting on 28th September 2012.


                The Forum Policy with regard to the TAN 8 Wind Farm, Pylons, Hub and Transport proposal is to be:

1.                                  To object to TAN 8.

                         To object to any further Wind Farm Development in Mid Wales.

3.                                  To object to any Hub location within Mid Wales.

4.                                  To object to any pylon lines in Mid Wales.

5.                                  To support any Town and Community Council in their objections to the above.

                Among the reasons for such objection are:

a)                                     Effects on the environment and in particular transportation.

b)                                     Effects on business and in particular tourism.

c)                                     The level of opposition from residents of Montgomeryshire.

d)                                     Health risk involved.

e)                                     Wind Farms are not economic and without subsidies they are unlikely to be built.


1534    Consultation on Permitted Development Rights:

            The secretary informed the meeting that the consultation on Permitted Development Rights is posted on the Web Site for comments by 30.11.2012.

            The executive will approve a response at their meeting in December.


1535    Fire Service concerns in Llandudno:

The meeting agreed that the secretary should write to Llandudno, Rhyl, Conway County and Colwyn Bay Councils with copy to Fire Service on Fire Service reductions.

It is in particular reference to the loss of an extendable ladder unit which has been withdrawn from Llandudno.  There are units at Wrexham (taken from Llandudno as their was broken),

Bangor and Rhyl.  It is suggested that the Flint one should be relocated to Colwyn Bay serving the communities better.


1536:    Date and location of next meeting:

The next quarterly meeting of the Association is to be held on Friday 25th January 2013 at 10.30am in Twyn and Kinmell Bay Council area.


1537    Actions to be taken before the next meeting:

The following actions are being taken forward from the meeting:


    a)    Thank you letter to visitor

    b)    Accounts to 31.3.2012 to be passed to auditors.

    c)    Consultations to be passed to the Welsh Assembly.

    d)    Consultation on Health Care to be passed to the Betsi Cadwallader Trust by 28.10.2012.

    e)    Voting slips to go out on Voting proposals.

    f)    Seek cost of translation of agenda, minutes etc.

    g)    Letter to be sent confirming support for Montgomeryshire Forum TAN8 Policy.

    h)    Letter to Llandudno, Rhyl,  Conway County and Colwyn Bay Councils with copy to Fire Service on Fire Service reductions.

    i)    Inform MPs’, AM’s and others of meeting details.

    j)    Issue press release on Health Care